Beyond MXE

(This was originally just a reddit post but I am sharing it here for posterity)

People talk about MXE in the forlorn terms they would discuss a former lover, or an immense fish that had just eluded their grasp after hours of fighting.

And its no wonder! I was fortunate to catch MXE at the tail end of its existence, fairly early on in my psychonautic career. It was the first dissociative I had tried after the standard DXM/Ketamine. It was miraculous to me, that a chemical could make me feel this way, that a single substance could do so much and go so far. And this was with the 2015 china batches, not even the mythical pre-ban UK stuff that had driven the drug's popularity. Nonetheless, it shaded my later explorations into the world of dissociatives and I, like many, found myself chasing that same experience with other substances. But perhaps this has been in folly- I believe there is a lot more that the world of dissociatives has to offer and we are limiting ourselves in our dedication to this single compound.

So what made MXE so great? Drawing from memories 5 years ago and the bit of experiences I racked up before it was gone forever, it was insightful, introspective, extremely euphoric, bright and visual with a deep and spectacular hole at higher doses, and a lovely sociable stimulation at lower doses. It was firmly hallucinogenic, had a psychedelic edge that many dissociatives were lacking, and most of all it was versatile- a colorful and fabulous party or club drug, great for dancing or hanging out, but with seemingly endless depth if you wanted to push your doses higher and meditate in its grand cathedral sans body. Most of all, was a quality many users describe as “magic”- that sense of wonder you get when you take it, the rush and the thrill and a sensation that “yes”, this is right, this is exactly where you need to be. It almost brought me to tears. Because few other novel dissociatives were available concurrently with MXE, I did not have much opportunity to see how it fared in combination with other dissos.

Since its untimely demise, the novel psychoactive substance market has attempted many times to capitalize on its mythical status- a number of drugs that have been developed since then were advertised in terms of their similarity to MXE, oftentimes with nonsensical naming conventions in an attempt to draw that association. Here’s my brief summary and comparison of a number of them

Something else that has stood out about MXE is its near-universal appeal- while not everyone loved it, a significant amount of people did. Perhaps it was this consistency that built such a strong reputation for it. Opinions on many of these other compounds vary wildly, some finding certain ones boring or uncomfortable which others find exciting or even use as a drug of choice. So take my opinions with a grain of salt here and delve into others' experiences.

-MXM (Methoxmetamine, 3-MeO-2’-Oxo-PCM): This doesn’t really count, as it existed concurrently with MXE. It probably didn’t catch on as it was overshadowed by its more potent and widely available PCE homologue. It always had limited availability and disappeared entirely from the market around the same time MXE did. Nonetheless, out of all the compounds in this post, this one probably came the closest to the real deal in terms of effects. I admittedly had limited experience, and only tried it in high doses, but the hole carried that same rush, that same sense of wonder and euphoria. It dosed higher- with desired effects coming in at 70 mg. It only worked sublingual or oral too, which may have drained some of its appeal. Still, beggars can’t be choosers, if this one had come onto the scene a year later than it did perhaps it would’ve caught on more. I think it’s certainly worth revisiting.

-MXP (Methoxphenidine, 2-MeO-Diphenidine): Also doesn’t count, for a number of reasons- it also existed at the same time as MXE, and it’s not even an arylcyclohexylamine. Nonetheless, its name has led to a great deal of confusion. I don’t even think it was intended as an MXE mimic, MXP just seemed like the natural way to abbreviate Methoxphenidine. It wasn’t the same at all- only dosed orally and very high, had a neutral buzzing sinking hole, functional to a degree but oddly sedating too. A unique and fun drug, but not anything like MXE. Also had an odd tolerance buildup and gave a week long cross tolerance to other dissociatives.

-DCK (Deschloroketamine, 2’-Oxo-PCM): This first popped up on the market shortly after MXE’s demise. All of its naming conventions bother me- first they tried to run with “DXE”, the only thing this molecule has in common with MXE is that they are arylcyclohexylamines. I’m glad that name didn’t stick. Even the DCK name is misleading, as ketamine is defined by its presence of a chlorine and oxygen. O-PCM would be a fine name for this one, but I digress. This one was cognitively quite similar to MXE at hole doses- the hole had a similar rush, a similar magic, a similar degree of visuals and intensity. DCK however is significantly more sedating, with a lazy draining couch lock in the hole that persists as an irritating immobility after the effects wear off, a feeling of haven just woken up, but lasting for hours. At lower doses it is more like low doses of regular ketamine, once again lacking a lot of the stimulation and vibrancy of MXE. It became an appealing drug in its own right eventually, suffered a hiatus, but made a comeback recently.

There was a lull in the development of MXE-like drugs for a few years, with lots of fun variations into different arylcyclohexylamines that would help establish a lexicon for which substitutions accomplished which effects- we were blessed with mass market availability of compounds like 3-MeO-PCE, O-PCE, 3-HO-PCE, 3-HO-PCP, and 2F-DCK. Rumors abounded of “HXE”, a 3-HO-2’-Oxo-PCE, which makes perfect sense as a supposedly interesting compound from a design standpoint, though it seems very few have actually been able to experience it. Then in 2019, interest in chasing the “next MXE” suddenly ratcheted back up, with the idea to place the “MXE substitutions” (that being the combined 3-MeO-2’-Oxo moieties) on other base compounds. The first one, seen in late 2019, was MXPr.

-MXPr (Methoxpropamine, 3-MeO-2’-Oxo-PCPr): This was the first PCPr compound seen on the market. Strapping the MXE substitutions to it seemed like a pretty safe bet to delve into this new base structure, though other substitutions on PCPr are certainly active in vitro. Being billed as the next MXE, MXPr was found to be ultimately disappointing to many. It has a short duration, a shallow headspace, and doses pretty high. Nonetheless, I found it to be remarkably visual in proportion to its other effects. It had a dull comedown that left me feeling dazed and useless, not particularly exciting. It really shined in combination with other substances however, adding extra dissociation and color so long as the other compound had sufficient stimulant properties. It is particularly miraculous when combined with 3-MeO-PCE.

-MXiPr(Methoxisopropamine, 3-MeO-2’-Oxo-PCPr): Like MXPr, this was the first compound to hit the market based on the PCiPr structure, another one that offers a potentially interesting base for other compounds. As the name implied, it has also been billed as “the next MXE”, and has proven to be a unique and interesting compound in its own right. At high doses, the hole is delightful, colorful, euphoric and exhilarating and quite stimulating, and might I even say ‘magical’. The comedown is stimulating and psychedelic. It has a shorter duration and higher dose than MXE however, and at lower doses it is fairly uninteresting and lacking in energy.

-DMXE (Deoxymethoxetamine, 3-Me-2’-Oxo-PCE): Another silly name. Call it Methyloxetamine if you really need to, like MeXE idk, its good to stick to conventions. That aside, this has proven to be one of the more exciting compounds to come out since 2019, I’m currently drafting a report. I finished the report! What MXiPr lacks in stimulating euphoria and rush, this drug has in spades. Lower doses are fun, dancey, active, social and exciting. Higher doses can allow you to sink into a hole though it remains fairly functional otherwise. The comedown is similarly stimulating and psychedelic and pleasant. It lacks the weight and vivid intensity of MXE but is a thrill in its own special way. My only gripes are the fairly high dosage, close to that of MXPr and MXiPr, and the short duration, also similar to aforementioned compounds. I would say this is the closest to actual MXE of the compounds that have been developed since its demise.

I have not yet had the opportunity to try either DMXE or MXiPr in combination with other drugs. I’m a busy bug.

So there our quest should end, many of the structural analogues to MXE have been exhausted and there are new horizons to look towards as far as dissociative development is concerned. Perhaps we should not be chasing this high anymore, but looking for new and exciting effects in the world of dissociatives- perhaps something more miraculous, more magical and exciting and potentially even useful and therapeutic is hiding out there, waiting to be discovered.

There’s three directions we can go- We have now demonstrated that we can reliably predict how modifications at the nitrogen are active, how various substitutions will remain active, and how various alterations of the aromatic ring remain active. I wrote a whole long thing about this, but I’ll summarize some of what I think is most relevant.

In altering the amine- We know that everything from a methyl through various butyl alterations are active and interesting, especially thanks to the development of MXPr and MXiPr. Various ring structures are interesting too- from PCPy to PCMo or perhaps a PCTMo. Riskier attempts can be made with the poorly studied alkoxyamines, (pretty much just your basic carbon chain with an oxygen stuck in there somewhere). An allyl also remains active. From here, you can strap on all sorts of the familiar proven substitutions and modifications (eg. 3-Me, 3-MeO, 4-MeO, 3-HO, 3-F, 3-Cl, 2’-Oxo), to attain a plethora of possible effects. The possibilities are really endless and restricted by synthesis! The closer it is to a familiar structure (Say, 3-MeO-PCM, or 3-HO-PCPr), the more predictable it is that the compound will be active, interesting, and sufficiently potent. I personally would love to see 3-MeO-PCM, 3-MeO-PCiPr, 3-Cl-PCE and 3-Me-PCE to start with, though more exciting and “out there” variations would be lovely to see too.

In playing around with substitutions- I rattled off some of the tried and true options- 3-Me, 3-MeO, 4-MeO, 3-HO, 3-F, 3-Cl, 2’-Oxo, alone or in combination (among some other more obscure ones that may work), but perhaps it’s time to try new substitutions, on a more familiar base, such as PCP or PCE. You can take that familiar alkane chain and seemingly keep expanding it, though you lose some potency as it gets bigger. So this would be -Et, -Pr, iPr, -EtO, -PrO and iPrO substitutions. Other possible options are thioalkanes, (say an MeO group with a sulfur instead of the oxygen), or halogens- F- and Cl- have been demonstrated to be active, how would a Br or I behave? The most activity and potency is retained with substitutions on the 3- position of the aromatic ring. On the cyclohexane, any variety of substitutions may help or hurt- its not entirely known yet. Meanwhile, if the amine is a ring structure, that can also see substitutions, which appear most effective on the carbon furthest from the nitrogen, in the case of PCP that would be the 4 position.

Lastly, you can swap in various aromatic rings in place of the usual phenyl- a thiophene actually increases potency, Yielding the TCx family of compounds. Perhaps a furan or a benzyl group would work too.

Here are a number of examples of possible interesting compounds to potentially investigate.

The thing is, we really don’t know what will be active until we try, the possibilities are truly endless and so many dissociatives are unique and amazing in their own right without having to have their designed constrained by their similarity to the legendary MXE. Perhaps it has gone to rest to leave us to come up with something better after all~